why step up and over

[stUPid]

I hate that this happens, but unfortunantly I believe it is part of the agreement. If you are qualified on the subdivision you have to take the call. You can stand up and say that man power is not an emergency, but getting on a level 4 or 5 and loosing out on 30 days pay for refusing the call is probably not worth it. This engineer should be set up/claim 7 days engineer extra board guarantee (according to UP/CNW agreements). If one is NOT qualified then they can stand up and the FRA will stand behind them.

The good thing is that now the local chairman can prove their point to CMS that more ENG should be added to the extra board, due to the fact they are setting up setback ENG to cover jobs.

[woody916]

Originally Posted by stUPid

I hate that this happens, but unfortunantly I believe it is part of the agreement. If you are qualified on the subdivision you have to take the call. You can stand up and say that man power is not an emergency, but getting on a level 4 or 5 and loosing out on 30 days pay for refusing the call is probably not worth it. This engineer should be set up/claim 7 days engineer extra board guarantee (according to UP/CNW agreements). If one is NOT qualified then they can stand up and the FRA will stand behind them.

The good thing is that now the local chairman can prove their point to CMS that more ENG should be added to the extra board, due to the fact they are setting up setback ENG to cover jobs.

The thing is, they called him before they called cut back conductors with MORE ENG seniority than this guy and he knew that and still accepted the call on a territory that he wasn't qualified on as an engineer. Fuckin idiot company man peice of shit if you ask me. Guys furloughed and cut back and he does shit like this.

[jonnyseeandoh]

Originally Posted by woody916

The thing is, they called him before they called cut back conductors with MORE ENG seniority than this guy and he knew that and still accepted the call on a territory that he wasn't qualified on as an engineer. Fuckin idiot company man peice of shit if you ask me. Guys furloughed and cut back and he does shit like this.

Ah, I think the national agreement says if they get you on phone you go, period. And if they run the roster they have to try anyone who is assigned to engine jobs, in seniority order, then they go to the bottom of the roster and offer to the junior demoted man and work up, then check the next nearest terminal if that also fails. Your local mileage may vary, and as said, nobody likes it, but they got ways of roping you in, and yes, some people are only too quick to be er, repsonsive.

[stUPid]

Here is a Q & A one of our VLC had with a FRA Manager for Locomotive Engineer Certification regarding qualification.

Q. 1. If an Engineer does not feel comfortable on a particular job, does he/she have the right to insist on a pilot?

Answer: The regulation (Part 240) requires that engineers be properly qualified on the territory they will operate. Qualification procedures are contained in the railroad’s certification program. Qualification usually entails making a number of qualifying trips over the territory and then talking to a DSLE (Road Foreman) who is qualified on the territory. There can be no assumption that the engineer is qualified because he/she made a certain number of trips over the territory. The regulation states that the railroad must determine that the engineer is qualified. This means the DSLE must make the determination. In some cases (experienced engineer) the engineer may only need to contact the DSLE and tell him/her that he (the engineer) is OK to go. In other situations such as heavy grade territory, the DSLE may make a qualifying trip with the engineer.

Re-qualification is another procedure that must be in the railroad’s certification program. This usually takes the form of a rule that requires engineers to re-qualify over a territory if they have not been over the territory within a certain amount of time. On most railroads this time period is 12 months. To re-qualify the engineer usually makes a trip or two over the territory.

If the engineer is not qualified on the territory he or she is called to operate, he/she must be given a pilot who is qualified.

Q. 2. Who makes the ultimate decision as to qualification?

Answer: Only a DSLE, who is qualified on the territory, can make that determination.

Q. 3. Who may be a pilot for an engineer?

Answer:

a. Joint Operations Territory (on a foreign railroad) – a certified engineer qualified on the territory.

b. Home Road (on territory the engineer has never operated before) – a certified engineer qualified on the territory who is not a member of the crew. In other words, the conductor on the crew who is an engineer cannot pilot his engineer.

c. Home Road (on territory the engineer was qualified on before, but lost qualification because of time limitations) – a qualified employee, who does not have to be an engineer, other than a crew member.

Q. 4. What are the FRA’s recommendations for trips to qualify?

Answer: FRA has no involvement in determining the number of qualifying trips. This has always been determined by local labor and management. The bottom line is that engineers must know the territory at the end of the process. The only sure way of knowing this is to test the engineer. However, so far, FRA has not had to consider this. Both engineers and railroads are responsible for this process. Employees are happy to qualify as long as they are being paid. There are some collective bargaining agreements that state engineers who elect to exercise their seniority on a territory will be given only one qualifying trip, and if they need more trips, they must do it on their own time. What happens is that the engineer will make the one trip and tell the railroad he/she is qualified, even though the normal qualifying time is 3-4 trips. Should this engineer get into trouble because of qualification shortcomings, FRA would be looking closely at both the engineer and the railroad to determine if both complied with the regulation.

VERY IMPORTANT!
49 Part 240.305 – Prohibited Conduct, paragraph (c) states: “Any locomotive engineer who is notified or called to operate a locomotive or train and such operation would cause the locomotive engineer to exceed certification limitations, set forth in accordance with subpart B of this part, shall immediately notify the railroad that he or she is not qualified to perform that anticipated service and it shall be unlawful for the railroad to require such service.”

The above section of the regulation is straight forward. Engineers do not have any options. They must notify the railroad when they are called to perform service they are not qualified to perform.

Q. 5. Is there a time limit between trips over a territory to retain qualifications?

Answer: There are no Federal time limits. Most of the major railroads have a 12-month time limit. In addition to the 12-month period, UP has a 6-month time period for heavy grade territory.

[amentfan322]

Most of the dochebags that step up in Knoxville do it because they feel they are too good to sit in the left seat!

[jonnyseeandoh]

Originally Posted by amentfan322

Most of the dochebags that step up in Knoxville do it because they feel they are too good to sit in the left seat!

Last time I got cut back to braking, I kicked my feet up and called signals, and rarely would volunteer to spell my engineer. And would dodge to the extent possible calls to step me up. Now that I don't get cut back, I never expect my conductor who may even be well qualified; but cut back, to spell me.

[cornhusker]

Originally Posted by jonnyseeandoh!

Last time I got cut back to braking, I kicked my feet up and called signals, and rarely would volunteer to spell my engineer. And would dodge to the extent possible calls to step me up. Now that I don't get cut back, I never expect my conductor who may even be well qualified; but cut back, to spell me.

When sat on the left i would always offer to run when ever the hogger said he was tired or something like that. i dont think by offering to run once in a while dosent hurt anything, it get pretty boring on the left sometimes

[jonnyseeandoh]

Well I said rarely, if they asked, and well, I'm not that much a schmuck

[railroaddog69]

engr that are sitting on the left I have no problem with running. its when they are working as a conductor, sitting at home rested, and then step over and run while the board is shot. there was many higher senority engr that were ran around, not to mention that maybe that board had been cut so far back by up stupid they were making a point (the engrs?). its still stabing your brother in the back.